IMAGE: NYSE logo; TEXT ON SCREEN: NYSE, THE ETF Exchange with Dougles Yones, HomeOfETFs.com

TEXT ON SCREEN: Douglas Yones, Head of Exchange Traded Products, NYSE

Douglas Yones: Welcome to the latest episode of the ETF exchange, brought to you by the NYSE. I’m Douglas Jonas, your host. I’m joined today by Jerome Schneider. Jerome is the head of short-term portfolio management at PIMCO. As a reminder, today’s interview is for informational purposes only. The NYSE does not recommend any investments or investment strategies. Let’s get to it. Jerome, thank you for being here with us today.

Jerome Schneider: Thank you, Doug.

Douglas Yones: I want to get right into it. You and I have had a lot of conversations about the idea of high cash balances and short-term money market positions, if you will. How are you and your team really framing out that conversation as we're entering into 2021 here? How are you working with clients around those positions?

TEXT ON SCREEN: Jerome Schneider, Head of Short-Term Portfolio Management, PIMCO

Jerome Schneider: Thanks, Doug. We think, actually, 2020 to 2021 is proving very similar to periods that we've had in the past, where we've had very low rates, people are focused on capital preservation, perhaps a little bit of defense. And in doing so, they have to be more constructive with how they think about their cash allocations, quite simply.

We have a period ahead of us of low interest rates, benchmark rates. We have also a period at the very front end of the US yield curve which is going to be pretty much close to zero interest rates for the next few years.

TEXT ON SCREEN: TITLE – Dash to Cash; SUBTITLE -- In 2020, as in 2009, cash holdings hit record highs as returns on Money Market Funds began multi-year lows – a historically persistent drought.

IMAGE: A line graph shows AUM in trillions of dollars from 2008 to 2021 with MMF Total AUM in gray, Institutional Prime Yield in magenta, and Institutional Government Yield in teal.

We've seen a period of this a few years back, 2010 to 2016, where we had these low rates, and specifically the period of 2013 through 2016 was one where we had very low rates, subdued activity in terms of opportunity sets, in terms of what treasury yields could offer. But at the same time, we had an extreme defensive position, with a lot of funds in money market asset… lot of assets in money market funds. Today, we have a similar experience. We have more than a trillion dollars moving into money market funds. We see people looking to take opportunities and risks in perhaps places they shouldn't, and at the same time, we are seeing people look for opportunities to move beyond that zero yield that they're finding in overnight repurchase agreements, t-bills, and even money market funds backed by government treasuries.

So, the key here is to find balance between the triumvirate of capital preservation, liquidity management, and ultimately some total return. And that total return is really where active management can come in, in our ETF space today.

Douglas Yones: Jerome, you brought up money market funds. I’d love to capture your view there, in particular on money market funds, as we start to think about the idea that interest rates may change. There’s a lot of news and conversations about whether or not they’ll go higher this year. How do you think about money market funds?

Jerome Schneider: Quite honestly, what we're saying to clients is that we need to be aware of two facets here. One, recognize that there’s a very low rate environment, one that’s dominated by an overwhelming amount of money market assets near zero interest rates, whether that’s t-bills or money market funds or overnight repurchase agreements, and then combine that with the fact that investors are looking for opportunities to take steps out of those money market fund segments, perhaps for a little bit more income, perhaps for a little bit more yield, and in doing so, they need to be prudent.

TEXT ON SCREEN: TITLE – Dash to Cash; SUBTITLE -- In 2020, as in 2009, cash holdings hit record highs as returns on Money Market Funds began multi-year lows – a historically persistent drought.

IMAGE: A line graph shows AUM in trillions of dollars from 2008 to 2021 with MMF Total AUM in gray, Institutional Prime Yield in magenta, and Institutional Government Yield in teal.

Well, there’s two things to keep in mind here. There’s a growing amount of assets under management in that money market fund space. You've had a trillion dollars move into that money market fund space over the course of the last year alone. In other risk-off environments, we've seen similar episodes, back right after the financial crisis, similar reaction function.

And so, we can extrapolate from some of those periods, back seven, eight, nine years ago, to understand the dynamics of safety that people are finding in money market funds with the low rate environment. What we’d say is that investors need to be prudent. Simply, we want to find a balance between the triumvirate of liquidity management, capital preservation, and then total return. Some of the go-to solutions, which include prime money market funds, should actually be given a second look at this point, not because they're the go-to, but because there’s actually, the foundations aren’t as solid as they once were. We've seen creaks in the foundation with prime money market funds, those that take commercial paper and other types of credit risk, back in March of 2020. There’s going to probably be regulatory responses over the forthcoming year on how to deal with that. But, at the same time, we think that investors need to be really prudent and thinking about the credit risks they're taking, and more importantly, how far down the credit spectrum they're doing.

And so, doing so is an important question, but making adjustments to these cash management portfolios really takes a knowledge base which helps to transcend what has happened in the past, but what could potentially happen in the future. Having the resources and understanding to do that is incredibly important.

TEXT ON SCREEN: TITLE – A framework for active liquidity management and short-term income generation; SUBTITLE – Liquidity tiering in practice

IMAGE: Three layers of liquidity tiers are shown: Tier 1 (top): Money market, Tier 2 (middle): Conservative ultrashort & ultrashort, Tier 3 (bottom): Low duration. TEXT ON SCREEN: Define the amount needed for immediate liquidity (Tier 1); Determine the time horizon for the remaining allocation (tiers 2&3); Consider risk/return goals and portfolio impact.

This is why we sort of think about our tiered liquidity structure in this regard. Using some government money market funds as that firm foundation for overnight liquidity, and then at the same time, keeping it very minimal, but judiciously moving some additional assets into what we call our tier 2 or tier 3 type of solutions, which seek to compromise and find opportunities into the premiums for the next few months, or even, perhaps, the next few years. And that’s where our MINT ETF or our low duration ETF LDUR fit in.

Douglas Yones: So, of course we're talking ETFs. This is the ETF exchange. At PIMCO, you offer two ETFs in this particular space. We have MINT, and LDUR. I wonder if you could help us kind of frame out those ETFs, and particularly, as we're talking about this cash balance and short-term investments.

Jerome Schneider: We think it’s a healthy relationship, understanding that there’s a need for immediate liquidity, perhaps with money market funds, but then again, tiering out your cash allocations over the next few weeks or months, and then obviously, to the next few months either even perhaps years. And in doing so, you're able to help capture some additional total return in a diversified manner, and really utilizing the short-term ETFs to really find ways to put your cash to active work. In other words, trying to monetize liquidity premiums that are in the marketplace, maintaining diversity, still being high in quality, but really recognizing the fact that you're not paying a premium through exceedingly low interest rates, perhaps zero interest rates, on your income, by moving out.

TEXT ON SCREEN: TITLE -- Short duration strategies can help investors solve multiple challenges

IMAGE: A graph shows potential return vs potential risk, with four boxes showing rising reward for risk from left to right: Money Market, Ultra Short & short-term, Low duration, Intermediate fixed income. TEXT ON SCREEN: Seek to offer attractive yield for a modest increase in risk (left); Aim to reduce market risk and hedge against rising rates (right)

So, MINT has done a very good job about creating this opportunity set for investors for more than a decade. Since we launched in 2009, it really has garnered and laid the foundation for many of those interests who want to take that step out of money market funds, and really find opportunities, and more importantly, total return over the next few months that they want to use these high cash allocations. We think that zero rates are here for a couple years at this point in time, especially in the front end. So the benchmark rate shouldn't rise. And if that’s the case, there’s going to be some structural premiums that MINT can offer that money market funds can’t. But we actually think this holding period is actually a little bit longer, in which case, we're going to think more strategically about how to embrace those longer periods. And that’s where our low duration ETF, LDUR, does come in. And we think there’s a growing opportunity. We're seeing good inquiries and good trends in terms of growth, in terms of the strategy, to really embrace what is going on into that 1 to 3 year sector, to find opportunities not only in corporate bonds, but diversifying to other arenas that include structured products, asset-backed securities, and the like.

So, creating a high quality portfolio for investors that have that foresight to utilize that tiered cash structure over the next few years, is really an advantageous way to think about producing some additional total return. And I think one of the bigger constructs here is recognizing the fact that both of these strategies, both MINT and LDUR, do so in the context of trying to earn a return, not only just above zero, but helps try to preserve purchasing power in an inflationary environment that is subtle but modestly growing over the next few years. And so, preserving the purchasing power of that cash sitting on the sideline will be a growing discussion amongst all types of investors: retail, institutional, pensions, et cetera, that will simply look to preserve purchasing power of that cash sitting on the sidelines.

So, here’s two good opportunities that we think to consider, creating a tiered structure within your cash utilizing an ETF structure.

Douglas Yones: Jerome, you certainly mention the idea of zero rates, or the lower end of where interest rates could be. I am curious, you know, when you start to think about the value prop of PIMCO, what is it you talk to your clients about what you bring to the table in this type of rate environment?

Jerome Schneider: Quite honestly, we've been here before. And, what you see is that it takes a tremendous amount of resources to not only find opportunities, but to know what to steer away from. This is the type of environment where people reach for a little bit more yield, because they view the environment as being safe. Whereas, we want to have the expertise and acumen to really draw upon not only finding those opportunities which we think are safe, and can produce a positive return for our clients, but at the same time, be critical and analyze and try to steer clear of assets that many others simply won’t find the writing on the wall that might be more hazardous, or create more volatility, to those cash management solutions. And so, over the past four decades plus, the short-term solutions at PIMCO have done exactly this. Look for an actively managed solution which takes into account the macro elements of where the economy is headed and where it is today, and then looks for bottoms-up solution to help present a balanced, risk-adjusted return subset for us to invest in. And even though it’s cash, it doesn't necessarily mean it’s easy. In fact, what we've witnessed before, it actually takes a lot of active management, a lot of research, resources, and more importantly, understanding how all these influences come together to really extract value even in this low rate environment.

And history would suggest that being defensive and prudent, coupled with opportunistically seeking different diversified solutions, can actually produce positive total returns for portfolios, even further cash, in this low rate environment.

Douglas Yones: Jerome, thank you very much for being with us here today. That’s a  wrap on the latest episode of the ETF exchange, brought to you by the New York Stock Exchange, the home of ETFs.

Disclosure

IMPORTANT NOTICE

Please note that the following contains the opinions of the manager as of the date noted, and may not have been updated to reflect real time market developments. All opinions are subject to change without notice.

Investors should consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses of the funds carefully before investing. This and other information are contained in the Fund’s prospectus, which may be obtained by contacting your PIMCO representative. Please read the prospectus carefully before you invest.

Past performance is not a guarantee or a reliable indicator of future results.

Investments made by a Fund and the results achieved by a Fund are not expected to be the same as those made by any other PIMCO-advised Fund, including those with a similar name, investment objective or policies. A new or smaller Fund’s performance may not represent how the Fund is expected to or may perform in the long-term. New Funds have limited operating histories for investors to evaluate and new and smaller Funds may not attract sufficient assets to achieve investment and trading efficiencies. A Fund may be forced to sell a comparatively large portion of its portfolio to meet significant shareholder redemptions for cash, or hold a comparatively large portion of its portfolio in cash due to significant share purchases for cash, in each case when the Fund otherwise would not seek to do so, which may adversely affect performance.

Exchange Traded Funds (“ETF”) are afforded certain exemptions from the Investment Company Act. The exemptions allow, among other things, for individual shares to trade on the secondary market. Individual shares cannot be directly purchased from or redeemed by the ETF. Purchases and redemptions directly with ETFs are only accomplished through creation unit aggregations or “baskets” of shares. Shares of an ETF, traded on the secondary market, are bought and sold at market price (not NAV). Brokerage commissions will reduce returns. Investment policies, management fees and other information can be found in the individual ETF’s prospectus.

Buying or selling ETF shares on an exchange may require the payment of fees, such as brokerage commissions, and other fees to financial intermediaries. In addition, an investor may incur costs attributed to the difference between the highest price a buyer is willing to pay to purchase shares of the Fund (bid) and the lowest price a seller is willing to accept for shares of the Fund (ask) when buying or selling shares in the secondary market (the bid-ask spread). Due to the costs inherent in buying or selling Fund shares, frequent trading may detract significantly from investment returns. Investment in Fund shares may not be advisable for investors who expect to engage in frequent trading.

Premium/Discount is the difference between the market price and NAV expressed as a percentage of NAV.

Current holdings are subject to risk. Holdings are subject to change at any time. An investment in an ETF involves risk, including the loss of principal. Investment return, price, yield and Net Asset Value (NAV) will fluctuate with changes in market conditions. Investments may be worth more or less than the original cost when redeemed

ETFs are subject to secondary market trading risks. Shares of an ETF will be listed for trading on an exchange, however, there can be no guarantee that an active trading market for such shares will develop or continue. There can be no guarantee that an ETF's exchange listing or ability to trade its shares will continue or remain unchanged. Shares of an ETF may trade on an exchange at prices at, above or below their most recent NAV. The per share NAV of an ETF is calculated at the end of each business day, and fluctuates with changes in the market value of the Fund’s holdings. The trading prices of an ETF's shares fluctuate continuously throughout the trading day based on market supply and demand, which may not correlate to NAV. The trading prices of an ETF's shares may differ significantly from NAV during periods of market volatility, which may, among other factors, lead to the Fund’s shares trading at a premium or discount to NAV.

A word about risk: Investing in the bond market is subject to certain risks including the risk that fixed income securities will decline in value because of changes in interest rates; the risk that fund shares could trade at prices other than the net asset value; and the risk that the manager's investment decisions might not produce the desired results. Investing in foreign denominated and/or domiciled securities may involve heightened risk due to currency fluctuations, and economic and political risks, which may be enhanced in emerging markets. Mortgage and asset-backed securities may be sensitive to changes in interest rates, subject to early repayment risk, and their value may fluctuate in response to the market’s perception of issuer creditworthiness; while generally supported by some form of government or private guarantee there is no assurance that private guarantors will meet their obligations. High-yield, lower-rated, securities involve greater risk than higher-rated securities; portfolios that invest in them may be subject to greater levels of credit and liquidity risk than portfolios that do not. Derivatives may involve certain costs and risks such as liquidity, interest rate, market, credit, management and the risk that a position could not be closed when most advantageous. Investing in derivatives could lose more than the amount invested Diversification does not ensure against loss.

Statements concerning financial market trends or portfolio strategies are based on current market conditions, which will fluctuate. There is no guarantee that these investment strategies will work under all market conditions or are appropriate for all investors and each investor should evaluate their ability to invest for the long term, especially during periods of downturn in the market. Outlook and strategies are subject to change without notice.

PIMCO as a general matter provides services to qualified institutions, financial intermediaries and institutional investors. Individual investors should contact their own financial professional to determine the most appropriate investment options for their financial situation. This material contains the current opinions of the manager and such opinions are subject to change without notice. This material has been distributed for informational purposes only. Information contained herein has been obtained from sources believed to be reliable, but not guaranteed. No part of this material may be reproduced in any form, or referred to in any other publication, without express written permission. PIMCO is a trademark of Allianz Asset Management of America L.P. in the United States and throughout the world. ©2021, PIMCO

PIMCO Investments LLC, distributor, 1633 Broadway, New York, NY 10019, is a company of PIMCO.

CMR2021-0315-1564342